Both Hands

Yea, any convenience store who's most visible sign from the street advertises the latest price for smokes with bars on the windows and "no loitering" signs is not what we need.

Exactly.

Ensie,

"Convenience store" is the best word to describe what I mean. What I'm really getting at are New York-style delis, which sell basic items: chips, pop, beer, cookies, crackers, cans of soup etc. Kind of like an MSM: sandwiches and convenience store items. They populate every street corner, even in the most expensive neighborhoods.

9th & Commerce is not what I'm going for, but I don't think it's the huge problems there are a result of the convenience store. I think that has more to do with the loiters around the bus and the *massive* problem of having a pay phone out front which facilitates drug deals. The convenience store on 9th & St. Helens next door to Bostwich has none of the problems of the other location.

The main reason I talked about the "Downtown Grocery Store Myth" is that I believe it is a myth that a grocery store will save downtown Tacoma or encourage a huge flood of residents. A lot of people seem to think so and see it as a silver bullet. Where I just see it as something that would be nice, but still probably a ways off.

Most people drive to the grocery store and will keep driving to grocery store even after moving downtown.

But living next to the C&K Market like I did made me realize that having a place to dash out on foot and get an onion, or a bag of chips, or what-have-you is really one of the best benefits of living downtown. I'm not talking about buying groceries there, where you'd want a Dave's or a Tacoma Boys for that.

I just want a place like MSM. Where I can pick up a spare item when I need it, even if it's 9 at night. Be we need enough of them scattered around to serve all the residents, so everyone can benefit.

Erik,

I live close to the MSM and I've seen the traffic in and out of that place - I don't want 20 more of MSM delis all over the downtown. It's an OK place, don't get me wrong, but it certainly doesn't speak to upscale residents or families - two things that we're trying to draw to the downtown core. When you break it down, it's another crappy convenience store, albeit with a good sandwich shop inside.

We don't need any more places that sell crackers, beer, chips, and cookies (and cigarettes) popping up all over. You can get that crap all over the place downtown now. That's why I brought up places like Dave's Meat and Produce; shops that excel at selling fresh produce and meat would be a real benefit instead of duplicating the crap that is already available. People love the farmer's markets - having stores like Dave's are like having year-round farmer's markets.

I agree with you that the "grocery store myth" is just that - a myth. Having a grocery store downtown is not the end all, be all that will bring the downtown into the future. But I think loading the downtown with convenience stores is a completely repugnant idea. See Kevin's above comment about barred windows and cigarette ads.

A year-round farmers market would be absolutely awesome.

Thanks for the post. I thought the exit 133 post about needing more ghetto marts downtown was a joke something akin to the onion. It's this kind of thinking that gives Tacoma its backwater reputation.

Great blog!

Hopefully, downtown Tacoma will have enough population someday to support a store that is focused on food more than cheap beer and cigarrettes and does not have bars on its windows which display signs for alcohol.

Erik - It's really too bad that Freighthouse Square can't pull it together and do something along those lines. I think it would really revitalize that area.

Thanks for stopping by Aaron - hence the reason for my response. I think a world with fewer convenience stores is a better world.

Thanks Erik B!

Handberg is right on. A grocery store will not save downtown. Given that there are grocery stores around downtown, how close must a store be for people to consider it walkable? Since people are excited about one on 6th i'm guessing about 3 blocks. That means we need one on 6th, 11th, 19th and 25th. That sounds like the scale of convience stores not grocery stores.
Lets say one goes in the center of the curent grocery stores. How about 15th and Pacific?
What I hear is:
"We need grocery stores downtown. I mean by where I live."
Its kind of the Anti-Nimby effect. Must put the services next to me for Tacoma to succeed!!!!

I applaude Handberg for stepping back and looking at the big picture.

Convenience stores: have 'em, nothing new, don't want more. Bottom line is the market is always going to be driven by butts in seats. Downtown has all the convenience stores it can [barely] support. More people will move downtown because they have money to throw away, the prices drop because of market over saturation, or they're renting. With more people will come more stores of all kinds. When it comes to food and snacks let's just hope we avoid the "smokes and lotto tickets" variety and get more open market and Dave's kinds of places. And, if given enough pressure from a real market of captive buyers downtown, a large store will eventually move in.

Mr. C - I appreciate your comments, but don't really understand your comment that a grocery store isn't needed to "save" downtown. Downtown is growing currently, do you mean to say that a grocery store is not necessary for the downtown to thrive?

I still disagree on the idea that more convenience stores are needed. There is no way that you will ever get me interested having a convenience store next door to my house. It was nice when I was 19 and a heavy smoker and needed to pick up a pack of cigs and something to quell the munchies, but beyond that - no way.

Open your mind to something better than crappy convenience stores for our fair city.

Wonderful website. A lot of useful information here. I’m sending it to some buddies ans additionally sharing in delicious. And obviously, thank you in your sweat!

Keep functioning ,splendid job!

Hi there, i read your blog occasionally and i own a similar one and i was just wondering if you get a lot of spam comments? If so how do you stop it, any plugin or anything you can advise? I get so much lately it's driving me crazy so any assistance is very much appreciated.

Usually I try and get my mix of Vitamin E from pills. While I would enjoy to through a fantastic diet it can be even more difficult to at times.

Fantastic blog post, I've saved as a favorite this web site so with any luck , I will see a lot more on this subject matter in the foreseeable future!

Thanks a ton for taking a few minutes to line this all out for people. This write-up ended up being quite helpful if you ask me.

Hi there, You have performed a great job. I will definitely digg it and personally suggest to my friends. I am sure they will be benefited from this site.

It’s remarkable to pay a visit this web page and reading the views of all mates about this paragraph, while I am also zealous of getting know-how.

A pity, but I dispute with this unique blog post. I do delight in your specific blog page still and will likely keep on moving right back for posts.

Nice blog here! Also your web site loads up fast! What host are you using? Can I get your affiliate link to your host? I wish my web site loaded up as quickly as yours lol

hey there and thank you for your information – I’ve definitely picked up anything new from right here. I did however expertise a few technical points using this website, as I experienced to reload the site a lot of times previous to I could get it to load properly. I had been wondering if your web host is OK? Not that I'm complaining, but sluggish loading instances times will very frequently affect your placement in google and could damage your high-quality score if advertising and marketing with Adwords. Anyway I’m adding this RSS to my e-mail and could look out for a lot more of your respective intriguing content. Ensure that you update this again very soon..

I was just seeking this information for some time. After 6 hours of continuous Googleing, at last I got it in your web site. I wonder what's the lack of Google strategy that do not rank this kind of informative websites in top of the list. Generally the top sites are full of garbage.

Graphics are genuinely pleasant source of instruction instead of text, its my know-how, what would you say?

My wife and i ended up being very contented that Louis managed to finish off his analysis with the precious recommendations he got out of the web page. It's not at all simplistic to simply be releasing ideas which people have been selling. And we figure out we have you to thank for that. Most of the explanations you have made, the straightforward site menu, the relationships your site help to create it's everything amazing, and it's facilitating our son and us do think the idea is cool, and that's very indispensable. Many thanks for all!

Hello, for Search engine optimisation real contents are truly required, if you just make a copy and paste then you can not ranked in search engines.

It’s awesome to pay a quick visit this website and reading the views of all colleagues regarding this paragraph, while I am also keen of getting experience.

YouTube video lessons are well-known in entire world, as it is the leading video sharing web site, and I become too delighted by watching YouTube movies.

Many thanks for an incredible post, can see your others topics. i appreciate your notions on this, I experienced a bit thump by this post. Merit again! You make a great moment. Has excellent data here. I feel if more people consideration for it like that, they'd have got a better time have the suspend ofing the matter.

Many thanks for an incredible publish, can study your others reviews. many thanks for your ideas on this, I experienced a bit thump by this article. Thanks again again! You commit an excellent time. Displays the beauty through fantastic facts here. I feel that when more individuals thought about it doing this, they'd possess a better time frame get the suspend ofing the situation.

A robust discuss, I basically given this kind of onto a colleague merely doing a bit of study for this. Anf the husband in all reality purchased us lunch since I discovered this meant for them.. look. Thus ok , i'll reword in which: Thnx for the treat! But yeah Thnkx pertaining to investing the time to debate this kind of, I think passionately regarding it in addition to like studying more with this theme. If possible, as you grow into expertise, can you opinions bringing up-to-date ones blog site having added details? It’s highly helpful for all of us. Significant flash way up just for this weblog article!

An impressive share, I just given this onto a colleague who was doing a little analysis on this. And he in fact bought me breakfast because I found it for him.. smile. So let me reword that: Thnx for the treat! But yeah Thnkx for spending the time to discuss this, I feel strongly about it and love reading more on this topic. If possible, as you become expertise, would you mind updating your blog with more details? It is highly helpful for me. Big thumb up for this blog post!

Very informative post. Thanks for taking the time to share your view with us.

This article is presently what did you say? I need, thank you.

Can I just say what a relief to find someone who actually knows what theyre talking about on the internet. You definitely know how to bring an issue to light and make it important. More people need to read this and understand this side of the story. I cant believe youre not more popular because you definitely have the gift.

Hello dear, me plus my mother are as well watch comical video clips but after I finished my homework

Sure high resolution film quality carries much memory, that’s why it gives you superior feature.

Wonderful work! This is the type of info that should be shared around the net. Shame on Google for not positioning this post higher! Come on over and visit my site . Thanks =)

Hahahhaa. I’m not too bright today. Great post!

This article is presently what did you say? I need, thank you.

Hahahhaa. I’m not too bright today. Great post!

Posts like this brihgetn up my day. Thanks for taking the time.

That is a very good tip particularly to those new to the blogosphere. Simple but very accurate information… Appreciate your sharing this one. A must read post!

Good blog! I truly love how it is simple on my eyes and the data are well written. I am wondering how I might be notified when a new post has been made. I’ve subscribed to your RSS feed which must do the trick! Have a great day!

Hello There. I found your blog using msn. This is a really well written article. I will make sure to bookmark it and return to read more of your useful information. Thanks for the post. I’ll definitely comeback.

I absolutely love the theme on this website. Can you tell me where you can get it? Thanks a lot!

This article is presently what did you say? I need, thank you.

Thank you an amazing publish, will examine your personal others topics. thank you your thoughts for this, I experienced a lttle bit made an impact to by this article. Thanks again! You earn a terrific point. Portrays natures best by the fantastic report here. I feel if more individuals consideration for it like this, they’d have a better time period receive the hold ofing the difficulty.

Posts like this brihgetn up my day. Thanks for taking the time.

You have a great blog here! would you like to make some invite posts on my blog?

Wow, incredible blog structure! How lengthy have you been running a blog for? you make running a blog glance easy. The whole look of your site is wonderful, let alone the content material!

Wonderful submit admin! i bookmarked your web webpage. i'll look ahead in the event you may have an e-mail checklist adding.

What a good site ! Well done …

I am always browsing online for tips that can aid me. Thank you!

Yeah bookmaking this wasn’t a high risk decision outstanding post!

As soon as I noticed this web site I went on reddit to share some of the love with them.

But one more intelligent weblog! Completely cannot wait for a great deal a lot more!

Hello! I just would like to give a huge thumbs up for the great info you have here on this post. I will be coming back to your blog for more soon.

Great article! I loved the knowledge and also the information given . Plus, your blogging style is very fun to read. If you have enough time please take a look at my brand new blog and let me know what you think.

An interesting discussion is worth comment. I do think that you need to compose more on this theme, may possibly not be a taboo subject but typically people are not enough to speak on such topics. To the next. Cheers

What a good site ! Well done …

Spectacular web site. Plenty of useful data here. I’m mailing it a number of friends ans additionally sharing inside delicious. And of course, thanks for your perspire!

Does your website have a contact page? I'm having a tough time locating it but, I'd like to shoot you an e-mail. I've got some recommendations for your blog you might be interested in hearing. Either way, great blog and I look forward to seeing it grow over time.

Great article! I loved the insight and advice given. Further, your article writing style is very pleasing to read. If you have time kindly check out my brand new blog and tell me what you think.

Very wonderful visual appeal on this site, I'd value it 10 10.

I do not create many responses, but i did a few searching and wound up here Both Hands: I Will Never Own a Convenience Store. And I actually do have 2 questions for you if you don't mind. Could it be only me or does it look as if like some of the comments appear like written by brain dead visitors? :-P And, if you are writing at additional sites, I would like to follow everything fresh you have to post. Could you make a list of the complete urls of all your community pages like your linkedin profile, Facebook page or twitter feed?

Great article! I loved the knowledge as well as the advice given . Also, your blogging style is very pleasing to read. If you have enough time kindly check out my new blog and tell me what you think.

I was suggested this website by my cousin. I am not sure whether this post is written by him as nobody else know such detailed about my trouble. You are wonderful! Thanks!Nice blog here! Also your web site loads up fast! What web host are you using? Can I get your affiliate link to your host? I wish my website loaded up as quickly as yours lol

Good post. I be taught one thing more difficult on completely different blogs everyday. It's going to always be stimulating to learn content from different writers and apply a bit of something from their store. I'd choose to make use of some with the content material on my weblog whether you don't mind. Natually I'll give you a hyperlink on your internet blog. Thanks for sharing.

Magnificent beat ! I wish to apprentice while you amend your web site, how can i subscribe for a blog site? The account aided me a acceptable deal. I had been tiny bit acquainted of this your broadcast offered bright clear concept

Hello, i feel that i noticed you visited my site so i came to “return the desire�.I'm attempting to in finding issues to improve my site!I guess its adequate to make use of some of your ideas!!

Many thanks for this article. I will also like to convey that it can always be hard when you find yourself in school and just starting out to create a long credit rating. There are many individuals who are simply trying to pull through and have a long or positive credit history can be a difficult thing to have.

Really wonderful visual appeal on this website , I'd value it 10 10.

Need to execute the iPhone 4s Jailbreak? Men and women point out that the actual iPhone 4S is a good iPhone yet, however were you aware that you can also make it much better?

Excellent way of explaining, and good article to get information regarding my presentation focus, which i am going to deliver in college.

very nice post, i actually love this website, keep on it

YouTube includes not simply funny and humorous video clips but also it carries learning related videos.

Very good morning! Ive just returned from France, there were billboards everywhere jeux concours gratuits, what does it mean? Thanks!

Some genuinely choice blog posts on this website , saved to my bookmarks .

The following time I read a blog, I hope that it doesnt disappoint me as much as this one. I imply, I know it was my option to read, but I actually thought youd have one thing interesting to say. All I hear is a bunch of whining about one thing that you could possibly fix if you werent too busy searching for attention.

I admire what you have done here. I like the part where you say you are doing this to give back but I would assume by all the comments that this is working for you as well.

Exceptionally amazing web site! Thank you for taking the time to write this insightful post!

A lot of thanks for all your valuable efforts on this blog. My aunt loves setting aside time for research and it's easy to see why. A lot of people know all relating to the powerful medium you give effective guides on this blog and invigorate contribution from other ones on that point and our own simple princess has always been starting to learn a whole lot. Have fun with the rest of the year. You are always doing a first class job.

Why users still use to read news papers when in this technological globe all is available on net?

I enjoy you taking the time to write this post. It has long been extremely useful to me certainly. Value it.

I am John, how are you everybody? This piece of writing posted at this web site is really good.

These are actually enormous ideas in regarding blogging. You have touched some good things here. Any way keep up wrinting.

Hello.This post was really motivating, particularly since I was browsing for thoughts on this topic last Saturday.

Hi! Would you mind if I share your blog with my myspace group? There's a lot of people that I think would really appreciate your content. Please let me know. Many thanks

If any one wants to be a successful blogger, then he/she must study this post, as it consists of all strategies related to that.

I used to be able to find good advice from your content.

Create custom menu on Appearance -> Menus web page

very nice post, i actually love this web site, carry on it

There are some interesting points in time in this article however I don’t know if I see all of them middle to heart. There's some validity however I will take maintain opinion until I look into it further. Good article , thanks and we wish more! Added to FeedBurner as well

Thank you for the auspicious writeup. It in fact was a amusement account it. Look advanced to far added agreeable from you! By the way, how can we communicate?

This site is really a walk-through for all of the information you wished about this and didn’t know who to ask. Glimpse here, and also you’ll undoubtedly uncover it.

Good way of describing, and fastidious piece of writing to obtain data about my presentation subject matter, which i am going to deliver in college.

Just desire to say your article is as surprising. The clearness in your post is just cool and i could assume you are an expert on this subject. Well with your permission let me to grab your RSS feed to keep up to date with forthcoming post. Thanks a million and please keep up the enjoyable work.

We stumbled over here from a different page and thought I may as well check things out. I like what I see so now i'm following you. Look forward to going over your web page yet again.

God, I feel like I sulhod be takin notes! Great work

When I originally commented I clicked the -Notify me when new feedback are added- checkbox and now each time a comment is added I get four emails with the same comment. Is there any manner you may remove me from that service? Thanks!

I do agree with all of the ideas you have presented in your post. They are very convincing and will definitely work. Still, the posts are too short for novices. Could you please extend them a little from next time? Thanks for the post.

I really like your writing style, fantastic information, regards for posting : D.

After I originally commented I clicked the -Notify me when new feedback are added- checkbox and now each time a remark is added I get four emails with the same comment. Is there any manner you can take away me from that service? Thanks!

I've been surfing online more than 3 hours today, yet I never found any interesting article like yours. It’s pretty worth enough for me. Personally, if all site owners and bloggers made good content as you did, the internet will be a lot more useful than ever before.

I have to point out my appreciation for your kindness in support of folks who must have guidance on your concern. Your very own commitment to passing the message around appears to be especially insightful and have continuously made ladies much like me to realize their goals. Your new interesting recommendations can mean a whole lot to me and especially to my office workers. Warm regards; from each one of us.

I discovered your blog site on google and examine a number of of your early posts. Proceed to keep up the very good operate. I just extra up your RSS feed to my MSN News Reader. In search of forward to studying more from you later on!…

I'm really enjoying the theme/design of your website. Do you ever run into any web browser compatibility issues? A few of my blog readers have complained about my site not operating correctly in Explorer but looks great in Safari. Do you have any advice to help fix this problem?

Thats some nice informationI would like to read more about it. computer repair computer repair computer repair it support it support it support computer desktop repair

Thanks so much for providing individuals with an extraordinarily remarkable opportunity to read from this web site. It is usually so good and also packed with fun for me and my office peers to search your blog really 3 times in 7 days to read through the latest things you have. And of course, I am at all times fascinated with your brilliant inspiring ideas served by you. Some 2 tips in this article are really the most suitable I've ever had.

Thank you for your entire effort on this web site. My mother really likes going through investigations and it's easy to understand why. A lot of people know all about the lively means you provide insightful thoughts through this website and as well as attract contribution from other ones on this situation and our favorite child is being taught a whole lot. Take pleasure in the remaining portion of the year. You are always doing a fabulous job.

This website online is mostly a walk-by for all of the information you wished about this and didn’t know who to ask. Glimpse here, and you’ll undoubtedly uncover it.

There are definitely loads of particulars like that to take into consideration. That could be a nice point to carry up. I provide the ideas above as general inspiration but clearly there are questions just like the one you carry up where crucial factor can be working in trustworthy good faith. I don?t know if finest practices have emerged round things like that, however I'm positive that your job is clearly identified as a good game. Each girls and boys really feel the impact of only a second’s pleasure, for the rest of their lives.

There are actually quite a lot of details like that to take into consideration. That could be a nice point to deliver up. I supply the ideas above as basic inspiration however clearly there are questions just like the one you deliver up where a very powerful thing will probably be working in honest good faith. I don?t know if finest practices have emerged around issues like that, however I'm positive that your job is clearly identified as a good game. Each boys and girls really feel the influence of just a moment’s pleasure, for the remainder of their lives.

I needed to put you that tiny word to finally say thanks a lot the moment again for these pretty methods you have shown on this page. This has been quite wonderfully open-handed of people like you in giving freely all many individuals would have offered for sale for an e-book to earn some money for themselves, precisely considering the fact that you might well have tried it in case you wanted. Those inspiring ideas additionally acted to be the good way to be aware that some people have the same interest really like my very own to figure out very much more with reference to this issue. I am certain there are some more pleasant times ahead for those who find out your website.

Youre so cool! I dont suppose Ive learn anything like this before. So good to search out any individual with some authentic thoughts on this subject. realy thank you for beginning this up. this website is something that's needed on the net, somebody with a bit originality. helpful job for bringing one thing new to the internet!

One thing I have actually noticed is there are plenty of misguided beliefs regarding the banking companies intentions when talking about property foreclosures. One myth in particular would be the fact the bank wants your house. The lender wants your dollars, not your own home. They want the amount of money they loaned you with interest. Avoiding the bank will only draw the foreclosed conclusion. Thanks for your article.

Excuse me but I have to dis-agree

Amazing! This blog looks just like my old one! It's on a totally different subject but it has pretty much the same page layout and design. Excellent choice of colors!

My developer is trying to persuade me to move to .net from PHP. I have always disliked the idea because of the expenses. But he's tryiong none the less. I've been using Movable-type on numerous websites for about a year and am anxious about switching to another platform. I have heard fantastic things about blogengine.net. Is there a way I can import all my wordpress content into it? Any kind of help would be greatly appreciated!

Hello, thanks for that it kept me glued towards the screen please put up much more like this, also when will there be much more post? will adhere to on fb/twitter. Thanks so significantly!

I am frequently to blogging and i really admire your pleased. The article has really peaks my interest. I'm free to bookmark your locate and hold glance for brand smack original information.

These days of austerity as well as relative anxiousness about getting debt, most people balk against the idea of employing a credit card in order to make purchase of merchandise and also pay for a holiday, preferring, instead just to rely on the actual tried as well as trusted procedure for making repayment - cash. However, in case you have the cash on hand to make the purchase completely, then, paradoxically, that's the best time to use the cards for several good reasons.

Thankyou for this grand post, I am glad I found this web site on yahoo.

yeah bookmaking this wasn't a bad conclusion great post! .

Respect to op , some wonderful information .

This information is magnificent. I understand and respect your clear-cut points. I am impressed with your writing style and how well you express your thoughts.

I like the helpful information you provide in your articles. I will bookmark your blog and check again here regularly. I am quite certain I’ll learn lots of new stuff right here! Good luck for the next!

You really make it seem so easy with your presentation but I find this matter to be actually something which I feel I'd never understand. It seems too complicated and extremely wide for me. I am taking a look forward in your next publish, I°ll attempt to get the cling of it!

I do consider all the ideas you have offered for your post. They are really convincing and will definitely work. Nonetheless, the posts are too brief for novices. May you please lengthen them a little from subsequent time? Thank you for the post.

My coder is trying to convince me to move to .net from PHP. I have always disliked the idea because of the expenses. But he's tryiong none the less. I've been using WordPress on numerous websites for about a year and am nervous about switching to another platform. I have heard good things about blogengine.net. Is there a way I can transfer all my wordpress content into it? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Having read this I thought it was rather informative. I appreciate you taking the time and energy to put this article together. I once again find myself personally spending a significant amount of time both reading and leaving comments. But so what, it was still worth it!

I really enjoy looking at on this internet site, it holds excellent articles. "Beware lest in your anxiety to avoid war you obtain a master." by Demosthenes.

Thanks for signing in, . Now you can comment. (sign out)